A Commentary On EVE’s Latest “Scandal”
Below is going to be a commentary about EVE, its player-base, and the current gaming media's reaction to EVE's latest scandal. The following is solely my personal opinion about the event and the game, and should not be considering the thoughts of the entire Multiplaying community... just covering my bases here.
By now if you haven’t already heard about EVE’s latest scandal involving CSM Chairman Alexander “The Mittani” Gianturco, click here to get caught up. Read the article? Okay great. First, let me iterate on a few things: EVE is a cold, ruthless, unforgiving game. The entire point is for players to force their will upon others, blow up people’s goods and dreams, and to enjoy the company of others doing the same. Also, a lot of people, including Alex, were hammered at FanFest. I’m not saying the fact that he was drunk forgives what transpired. Actually for the record:
“However, being drunk was no excuse – I got myself there, after all.” - Alexander “The Mittani” Gianturco
Its important to note that this subject was predetermined to be okay. The slides had to be okay-ed before the FanFest, so its hard to say this wasn’t pre-planned for the presentation. However, I highly doubt that even the most infamous of EVE players would actually want someone to kill themselves over an internet spaceship game. Maybe crack a few jokes about how hard some people take losses in the game sure, but not willingly wish for the death of another human being or create a panel that “encourages cyber-bulling or suicide”.
Look, this is directed towards the hundreds of people that are currently debating this “hot button issue” that have never played EVE. Every day thousands of people log onto this game to build up space empires, while others log on solely to tear them right back down. That doesn’t mean EVE is some terrible game that only sociopaths would want to play. People are now calling for The Mittani’s resignation from the CSM, given he was just (maybe 2 days ago) voted as the CSM7 Chairman. This is solely because commentors and article writers alike are now making the justification that because Alex said some terrible things while heavily intoxicated, and he is the CSM chairman, everyone in EVE must be a terrible person because he garnered the most votes. Right?
Wrong. People didn’t vote for The Mittani because he is an evil space emperor (well okay maybe some did). They voted for him because he legitimately wants to see EVE improve and become a better game. Crucible, EVE’s latest expansion, has been a huge success, and I find it impossible to say that such a success could have occurred without such a strong conviction within CSM6 to get shit done. For those that don’t know, The Mittani was chairman of CSM6 as well. The very same CSM that is now being heralded as the most successful in the history of the CSM. I’m not defending Alex’s actions during that panel. He f&$%ed up, and he know’s it. With that said, I refuse to sit idly by and watch people who have never even played EVE trash it because of something that, had it not been said during FanFest, would have gone unnoticed by the gaming community.
At the very least trash the game for something legitimate, like its crappy PvE content.
You can read Alex’s apology here.
CCP’s Update Can Be Found Here and Here
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I read he was part of the goonswarm right? Wouldn’t expect much better from them.
Most people are acting like the entire game is filled with people like this, only furthering the negative impression of pvp-heavy sandboxes like EvE… and let them think that– more sandbox for us!
EVE’s bad reputation is well deserved.
While this doesn’t mean that EVERY player in EVE is an asshole, lurking about, waiting for an opportunity to grief another player, it certainly is confirmation that EVE is full of people exactly like that.
Most EVE players don’t cross the line into real life cyber-bullying, but it’s my belief that EVE blurs the line enough that it actually promotes this type of behaviour. Let me explain.
Every game has a set of rules that players must follow. For most games the lines are similar and prohibit scamming or any other behaviour outside of gameplay mechanics that has a direct negative impact on another player’s enjoyment of the game.
Now, every once in a while human nature takes over and people cross that line. It’s unavoidable and it happens in every game. But because the lines are so conservative in these games, infractions are pretty minor and usually amount to something like corpse camping, ninja looting or stealing raid timers. This type of griefing has minimal impact on the community at large.
Not so with EVE. CCP has created an environment where scamming and griefing is not only condoned, but is encouraged. It;s everyday happenstance. Months, maybe years of work can vanish in moments. Day to day quality of play can be seriously affected. With the PLEX system, real life money is actually an issue. Things are much more serious in EVE and all of this is simply standard EVE fare.
So what happens when human nature takes over and people cross the line in EVE? The mob mentality that festers in this environment dehumanizes the people on the other side. When you are encouraged and even celebrated for how much you disrespect other players, is it surprising that someone eventually crosses the line into cyber-bullying?
“EVE is a cold harsh, unforgiving game” is the relentless mantra used to ward off any critique of this behaviour. Fine, that’s the game you want, that’s the game you have. But you can’t say that and then defend the game when it’s called out for it’s anti-social behaviour. You can’t have it both ways.
I watched the video of Mitanni’s presentation at Fanfest. His entire presentation is glorification of griefing and demeaning other players based on religion and lifestyle. I watched the first few minutes of TEST alliance’s presentation at the same fanfest where the presenter proudly announced his alliance title as “Lord of the Faggots”. Throwing out hateful derogatory terms at an official presentation like it was nothing. If that doesn’t speak to the type of community that plays EVE, nothing does.
When Mittani gives out the player’s name and encourages the audience to make him kill himself, there is no reaction from the crowd. Nobody seems phased at all. Because this is part of the every day culture of some of the biggest corporations in the game.
So, sorry Rer, this isn’t a minor case of alcohol induced bad judgement. This isn’t simply outsiders casting judgement on things they don’t understand. This is a bunch of assholes being called out for acting like assholes. And while this isn’t indicative of every player in EVE, it’s certainly a fairly accurate portrait of a sizeable community within the game and CCP needs to be called out for fostering and promoting it.
“So, sorry Rer, this isn’t a minor case of alcohol induced bad judgement. This isn’t simply outsiders casting judgement on things they don’t understand. This is a bunch of assholes being called out for acting like assholes. And while this isn’t indicative of every player in EVE, it’s certainly a fairly accurate portrait of a sizeable community within the game and CCP needs to be called out for fostering and promoting it.”
Yes, Goons and some of TEST are flamboyant assholes. What is CCP supposed to do about this? I’m not saying they have to condone someone drunkenly saying “You should harass this guy into killing himself” but to say that because Goons are in EVE it must be some cesspit of all humanity is ridiculous. Goons play WoW, World of Tanks, SWTOR, therefore obviously these games are also evil incarnate.
This is in response to most gaming news outlets by the way, not yourself Brian. While most of these characters are true scumbags in EVE, outside of the game a large majority of them are normal people. College students, parents, space lawyers, etc.
To say that CCP/EVE should now change its ways due to a drunken outburst, granted a very cruel and incredibly stupid one, seems overbearing to what honestly was just simple bad judgement call (don’t expect an open bar, mic, and a worldwide audience to go well when the people on said mic get their kicks being jerks in a game).
Whether you like Mittani or not doesn’t matter, the drunken ramblings of one man shouldn’t be an allowance for everyone to suddenly say SEE TOLD YA EVE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE, because that reality isn’t true Grok, and if educated people such as yourself played the game and realized that most people that play are average human beings, maybe we could remove this stereotype altogether.
Mittani was drunk, and was being a huge dick. In the game, he’s a huge dick. My final point, is that just because Mittani is a huge dick, and the CSM Chairman (He actually has vastly improved the game and takes the role seriously), doesn’t that people who haven’t even given the game a fair shake deserve to say “well everyone must be like that in that terrible game”.
I agree that not “everyone” in EVE is an a-hole. I said it multiple times. I’ve played EVE off and on and even Beta tested it. My longest stretch was only a few months, but it was long enough to realize that while there are lots of nice people in the community it also has a sizeable population of assholes that is disproportionate to other games.
Now, here’s the point:
While not every player in EVE is a jerk, it’s CCP’s fault that it’s perceived that way because they actively encourage that kind of behavior. “EVE is a cold, unforgiving, brutal game…” If they don’t wish to be perceived as a game that caters to anti-social griefing behavior then they need to change the environment.
I use the exact same argument when it comes to fighting in the NHL. The NHL wants to be seen as a legitimate sport that rivals baseball, football and basketball. But for most people in the U.S., it’s viewed as a fringe sport that features goons that fight on ice. As long as the NHL endorses fighting, it will always be viewed this way. And when a player takes things over the line (See Marty McSorley or Ed Jovanovski) it’s a huge PR hit for the NHL because it’s seen as an inevitable consequence of the environment it endorses.
Meanwhile, back in EVE, most people are concerned with the question of whether he should resign (or made be made to resign)with many people simply accepting his apology at face value and wanting to move on. How this is even up for question is beyond me. The only thing standing between this guy and a manslaughter conviction is that fact that his victim is still alive. This isn’t something to be dismissed simply because he apologized and he’s been “good for the community”. This guy should be out on his ass and banned from the game. The fact that it hasn’t been done already blows me away and is confirmation that CCP is happy with it’s reputation.
As usual Rer, this isn’t personal. We disagree on this and I like to debate, but as always we’re pals and this is just good-natured debate.
By the way, the difference between GOONS in WoW and GOONS in EVE is that WoW has a rule set that limits their impact on other people in the game. It actually reinforces my argument.
“As usual Rer, this isn’t personal. We disagree on this and I like to debate, but as always we’re pals and this is just good-natured debate.”
Never for a moment suspected otherwise man, thanks for commenting
;D
Random aside, I just hit 30 million skillpoints in EVE, weehoo!
Hah gratz dude.
Post updated with links to CCP’s official responses.
9 comments
I read he was part of the goonswarm right? Wouldn’t expect much better from them.
Most people are acting like the entire game is filled with people like this, only furthering the negative impression of pvp-heavy sandboxes like EvE… and let them think that– more sandbox for us!
EVE’s bad reputation is well deserved.
While this doesn’t mean that EVERY player in EVE is an asshole, lurking about, waiting for an opportunity to grief another player, it certainly is confirmation that EVE is full of people exactly like that.
Most EVE players don’t cross the line into real life cyber-bullying, but it’s my belief that EVE blurs the line enough that it actually promotes this type of behaviour. Let me explain.
Every game has a set of rules that players must follow. For most games the lines are similar and prohibit scamming or any other behaviour outside of gameplay mechanics that has a direct negative impact on another player’s enjoyment of the game.
Now, every once in a while human nature takes over and people cross that line. It’s unavoidable and it happens in every game. But because the lines are so conservative in these games, infractions are pretty minor and usually amount to something like corpse camping, ninja looting or stealing raid timers. This type of griefing has minimal impact on the community at large.
Not so with EVE. CCP has created an environment where scamming and griefing is not only condoned, but is encouraged. It;s everyday happenstance. Months, maybe years of work can vanish in moments. Day to day quality of play can be seriously affected. With the PLEX system, real life money is actually an issue. Things are much more serious in EVE and all of this is simply standard EVE fare.
So what happens when human nature takes over and people cross the line in EVE? The mob mentality that festers in this environment dehumanizes the people on the other side. When you are encouraged and even celebrated for how much you disrespect other players, is it surprising that someone eventually crosses the line into cyber-bullying?
“EVE is a cold harsh, unforgiving game” is the relentless mantra used to ward off any critique of this behaviour. Fine, that’s the game you want, that’s the game you have. But you can’t say that and then defend the game when it’s called out for it’s anti-social behaviour. You can’t have it both ways.
I watched the video of Mitanni’s presentation at Fanfest. His entire presentation is glorification of griefing and demeaning other players based on religion and lifestyle. I watched the first few minutes of TEST alliance’s presentation at the same fanfest where the presenter proudly announced his alliance title as “Lord of the Faggots”. Throwing out hateful derogatory terms at an official presentation like it was nothing. If that doesn’t speak to the type of community that plays EVE, nothing does.
When Mittani gives out the player’s name and encourages the audience to make him kill himself, there is no reaction from the crowd. Nobody seems phased at all. Because this is part of the every day culture of some of the biggest corporations in the game.
So, sorry Rer, this isn’t a minor case of alcohol induced bad judgement. This isn’t simply outsiders casting judgement on things they don’t understand. This is a bunch of assholes being called out for acting like assholes. And while this isn’t indicative of every player in EVE, it’s certainly a fairly accurate portrait of a sizeable community within the game and CCP needs to be called out for fostering and promoting it.
“So, sorry Rer, this isn’t a minor case of alcohol induced bad judgement. This isn’t simply outsiders casting judgement on things they don’t understand. This is a bunch of assholes being called out for acting like assholes. And while this isn’t indicative of every player in EVE, it’s certainly a fairly accurate portrait of a sizeable community within the game and CCP needs to be called out for fostering and promoting it.”
Yes, Goons and some of TEST are flamboyant assholes. What is CCP supposed to do about this? I’m not saying they have to condone someone drunkenly saying “You should harass this guy into killing himself” but to say that because Goons are in EVE it must be some cesspit of all humanity is ridiculous. Goons play WoW, World of Tanks, SWTOR, therefore obviously these games are also evil incarnate.
This is in response to most gaming news outlets by the way, not yourself Brian. While most of these characters are true scumbags in EVE, outside of the game a large majority of them are normal people. College students, parents, space lawyers, etc.
To say that CCP/EVE should now change its ways due to a drunken outburst, granted a very cruel and incredibly stupid one, seems overbearing to what honestly was just simple bad judgement call (don’t expect an open bar, mic, and a worldwide audience to go well when the people on said mic get their kicks being jerks in a game).
Whether you like Mittani or not doesn’t matter, the drunken ramblings of one man shouldn’t be an allowance for everyone to suddenly say SEE TOLD YA EVE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE, because that reality isn’t true Grok, and if educated people such as yourself played the game and realized that most people that play are average human beings, maybe we could remove this stereotype altogether.
Mittani was drunk, and was being a huge dick. In the game, he’s a huge dick. My final point, is that just because Mittani is a huge dick, and the CSM Chairman (He actually has vastly improved the game and takes the role seriously), doesn’t that people who haven’t even given the game a fair shake deserve to say “well everyone must be like that in that terrible game”.
I agree that not “everyone” in EVE is an a-hole. I said it multiple times. I’ve played EVE off and on and even Beta tested it. My longest stretch was only a few months, but it was long enough to realize that while there are lots of nice people in the community it also has a sizeable population of assholes that is disproportionate to other games.
Now, here’s the point:
While not every player in EVE is a jerk, it’s CCP’s fault that it’s perceived that way because they actively encourage that kind of behavior. “EVE is a cold, unforgiving, brutal game…” If they don’t wish to be perceived as a game that caters to anti-social griefing behavior then they need to change the environment.
I use the exact same argument when it comes to fighting in the NHL. The NHL wants to be seen as a legitimate sport that rivals baseball, football and basketball. But for most people in the U.S., it’s viewed as a fringe sport that features goons that fight on ice. As long as the NHL endorses fighting, it will always be viewed this way. And when a player takes things over the line (See Marty McSorley or Ed Jovanovski) it’s a huge PR hit for the NHL because it’s seen as an inevitable consequence of the environment it endorses.
Meanwhile, back in EVE, most people are concerned with the question of whether he should resign (or made be made to resign)with many people simply accepting his apology at face value and wanting to move on. How this is even up for question is beyond me. The only thing standing between this guy and a manslaughter conviction is that fact that his victim is still alive. This isn’t something to be dismissed simply because he apologized and he’s been “good for the community”. This guy should be out on his ass and banned from the game. The fact that it hasn’t been done already blows me away and is confirmation that CCP is happy with it’s reputation.
As usual Rer, this isn’t personal. We disagree on this and I like to debate, but as always we’re pals and this is just good-natured debate.
By the way, the difference between GOONS in WoW and GOONS in EVE is that WoW has a rule set that limits their impact on other people in the game. It actually reinforces my argument.
“As usual Rer, this isn’t personal. We disagree on this and I like to debate, but as always we’re pals and this is just good-natured debate.”
Never for a moment suspected otherwise man, thanks for commenting
;D
Random aside, I just hit 30 million skillpoints in EVE, weehoo!
Hah gratz dude.
Post updated with links to CCP’s official responses.
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