Does A Grind Equate to More Socialization?
Over the last week or so, many articles have been written about Aion’s leveling grind. Some don’t mind it, others loathe it, and I’m in the middle. I don’t believe that the grind in Aion is at all a new thing. Most of my more beloved MMO’s of days gone by were much worse in terms of the “level 1 to end game” experience grind. Everquest was worse, City of Heroes was worse, and the one that I still compare all other MMO’s to, Dark Age of Camelot, was, for me, worse. Does that make it acceptable? I’ve personally grown to accept it, but maybe it’s not. Many people just want end game, and to get there, a leveling experience that doesn’t make you feel the need to keep tabs on your XP bar. And while I’m also mostly concerned with the end game in Aion, I think, in an attempt to keep the RPG in MMORPG, we need some form of committed involvement in our characters advancement. As I stated somewhere amongst the tangential conversation over on Shadow Wars blog, I feel a sense of accomplishment when I level in Aion. Sure, it’s almost purely based on the amount of time I’ve soaked into the game, but I still feel better about leveling than I have in the past couple MMO’s I’ve played. I never got this feeling in World of Warcraft, or in Warhammer Online. At least in WAR I felt a nice little rush by dominating in a scenario, or dropping fools in RvR with vast quantities of boiling oil. With Aion, I hope these feelings return in the end game, but time will tell.
But, maybe there should be another way. One thing that can still be said for Warhammer Online is the ability to level through RvR as well as PvE. Sure, leveling purely through RvR is a slower grind which makes you (well, at least me) appreciate the simplicity of the early levels more than the end game. And that’s not to say there’s not a grind there! It was just being swept under the rug by the awesomeness of PvP combat. But there’s nothing I’ve played thus far that hasn’t left me feeling like I have to grind something to get by. Whether that be mobs, quests, or opponents.
With that said, I want to bring up an interesting point that Winin had on the subject of grinding. Due to the discussion on Shadow War’s site, I posted a question about the subject in our forums to find out if I was bat shit insane. Here’s one of Winin’s responses:
I gotta say, my favorite times in mmos have been going with a group of friends to some out of the way dungeon and crawling our way through it. From what I’ve seen in many games over the past 10 years: group grinding/crawling promotes socialization and questing promotes soloing.
This is where I believe we’ve seen a shift in MMO’s, maybe for the worse, and I’m not sure how it can be fixed. We’ve had a mini generation of MMO’s go by with an emphasis on questing and solo play. Now that millions of people are interested in MMO’s, that solo-casual attitude isn’t lining up right with the social aspect of a mostly traditional MMO like Aion. What I wonder is, will that be what makes Aion a niche title? Some say it has a mass appeal, and I don’t fully disagree, but unless the end game is bananas, I think the traditional grind will end up whittling away the subs. In the meantime though, I’ll keep enjoying my slow roll to 50 while I socialize.
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Yay! Slurms quoted me! I’m famous!
For me, the grind is just one of those things where I can stand it, but I have to take it very, VERY, slowly to avoid burnout. I’m curious to see if your opinion will change once you start to reach ~35 or so.
Good point. Maybe that’s the difference. You got into the 30′s rather quick, and you played Chinese Aion. I played in one closed beta weekend, and I’m currently only 25. I’m taking it slow. =D
This is probably totally off topic, but I’ll say it anyway. I don’t necessarily disagree with Winin’s comment, but I think the way that quests are designed in certain games can make a big difference when it comes to promoting socialization. For instance, LOTRO has epic quest lines and lengthy quest chains that often lead to a group-only event or situation. In my experience, this has promoted socialization in that people have a vested interest in completing these chains and will often seek groups in order to do so. I also see WAR’s PQ’s as doing the same thing (well, last year at least) but their PvE content was so blah that many people didn’t care. But I can also see the point of quest-based games doing the opposite thing…when someone has a quest to kill ten rats and they’re done with that, what’s their incentive to help another person kill their ten…? You’re already done and have moved on.
When it comes to grind, all I can say is there was nothing like EQ’s hell levels back in the day…and I never, ever want to revisit that.
My comment is based on what I see a lot of in PUG situations (i.e. the times when you might, you know, actually meet new people): You go somewhere and have a bunch of quests, maybe you join with someone to finish a tough one, then you separate to go turn in, or you group and everyone is at different stages, so you help the people just starting catch up, then people leave, or you spend too much time traveling back and forth. In EQ, I used to get into a group camped out somewhere and we’d chat and BS while someone (usually me when I was a bard) would go pull monsters back to the camp. The same group would go on for a long time (people would leave, new people would come). In WoW and other quest heavy games, groups were fleeting and often silent as people focused on killing 20 x’s so they could disband and run back to town to get the next step.
Got it! Thanks for the context.
Yeah, incentive is something that I think very few MMO’s have worked out, and I’m really not sure what the solution is. I really fought with this article for a while because I feel like I’m supporting grinding in it, but I’m really not, I just don’t mind it as much of others.
I really enjoy running quests, but I think they’ve become about as mundane as constantly pulling mobs. To me, the most fun I have is running through an area with a group of friends, and I think Aion has some opportunity to foster that style of play. I do really wish they would incorporate instanced dungeons in the game. That would be fantastic.
i agree that there is fun and opportunity for good socialization due to the forced grind. I’m hoping that people catch up soon so we can all FT together, though i’d probably kill the exp for everyone else
They should offer serious experience buffs to group play if they really want to get away with the idea that grinding encourages grouping.
aside from that, my biggest problem with Aion’s grind is that the entire focus is on the end game. Instances arent filled with story, they are simply random loot drops with fair to good expererience drops. If they put in things that made early and mid game cooler so you didnt want to grind as fast as possible to the end to experience all the fun content (i.e. tiered scens in WAR and tiered RvR) it wouldnt be so bad.
as it is, fortresses are a waste because everything i can attack resists approximately 99% of my spells, the abyss is a zergfest, and PvE is … well as described by everyone else.
All i want is end game, and all i want is to not have to mindlessly grind alone to get there. /whine /emo /QQmore ;p
Well written Slurms, I really enjoyed the read
I wouldn’t say that grinding forces socialization, but the kinds of quests and just the rewards for grouping outweighing the soloable mobs.
I’d much rather pug or find some friends and do some Mist Mane grinding than kill mobs alone for any decent length of time. Partly because I get much more exp, better loot in the form of the hairs to get blue gear, and partly because I just like pugging in general
‘I feel a sense of accomplishment when I level in Aion. Sure, it’s almost purely based on the amount of time I’ve soaked into the game, but I still feel better about leveling than I have in the past couple MMO’s I’ve played. I never got this feeling in World of Warcraft, or in Warhammer Online.’
I cant agree more with the above, good article. The pace of levelling is one of the things I’ve really enjoyed with Aion along with ‘forced grouping’ dont get me wrong you bump into the odd idiot but overall Im liking the design and mechanics of zonal quest hubs with the build up being taking down some elites with fellow players.
11 comments
Yay! Slurms quoted me! I’m famous!
For me, the grind is just one of those things where I can stand it, but I have to take it very, VERY, slowly to avoid burnout. I’m curious to see if your opinion will change once you start to reach ~35 or so.
Good point. Maybe that’s the difference. You got into the 30′s rather quick, and you played Chinese Aion. I played in one closed beta weekend, and I’m currently only 25. I’m taking it slow. =D
This is probably totally off topic, but I’ll say it anyway. I don’t necessarily disagree with Winin’s comment, but I think the way that quests are designed in certain games can make a big difference when it comes to promoting socialization. For instance, LOTRO has epic quest lines and lengthy quest chains that often lead to a group-only event or situation. In my experience, this has promoted socialization in that people have a vested interest in completing these chains and will often seek groups in order to do so. I also see WAR’s PQ’s as doing the same thing (well, last year at least) but their PvE content was so blah that many people didn’t care. But I can also see the point of quest-based games doing the opposite thing…when someone has a quest to kill ten rats and they’re done with that, what’s their incentive to help another person kill their ten…? You’re already done and have moved on.
When it comes to grind, all I can say is there was nothing like EQ’s hell levels back in the day…and I never, ever want to revisit that.
My comment is based on what I see a lot of in PUG situations (i.e. the times when you might, you know, actually meet new people): You go somewhere and have a bunch of quests, maybe you join with someone to finish a tough one, then you separate to go turn in, or you group and everyone is at different stages, so you help the people just starting catch up, then people leave, or you spend too much time traveling back and forth. In EQ, I used to get into a group camped out somewhere and we’d chat and BS while someone (usually me when I was a bard) would go pull monsters back to the camp. The same group would go on for a long time (people would leave, new people would come). In WoW and other quest heavy games, groups were fleeting and often silent as people focused on killing 20 x’s so they could disband and run back to town to get the next step.
Got it! Thanks for the context.
Yeah, incentive is something that I think very few MMO’s have worked out, and I’m really not sure what the solution is. I really fought with this article for a while because I feel like I’m supporting grinding in it, but I’m really not, I just don’t mind it as much of others.
I really enjoy running quests, but I think they’ve become about as mundane as constantly pulling mobs. To me, the most fun I have is running through an area with a group of friends, and I think Aion has some opportunity to foster that style of play. I do really wish they would incorporate instanced dungeons in the game. That would be fantastic.
i agree that there is fun and opportunity for good socialization due to the forced grind. I’m hoping that people catch up soon so we can all FT together, though i’d probably kill the exp for everyone else
They should offer serious experience buffs to group play if they really want to get away with the idea that grinding encourages grouping.
aside from that, my biggest problem with Aion’s grind is that the entire focus is on the end game. Instances arent filled with story, they are simply random loot drops with fair to good expererience drops. If they put in things that made early and mid game cooler so you didnt want to grind as fast as possible to the end to experience all the fun content (i.e. tiered scens in WAR and tiered RvR) it wouldnt be so bad.
as it is, fortresses are a waste because everything i can attack resists approximately 99% of my spells, the abyss is a zergfest, and PvE is … well as described by everyone else.
All i want is end game, and all i want is to not have to mindlessly grind alone to get there. /whine /emo /QQmore ;p
Well written Slurms, I really enjoyed the read
I wouldn’t say that grinding forces socialization, but the kinds of quests and just the rewards for grouping outweighing the soloable mobs.
I’d much rather pug or find some friends and do some Mist Mane grinding than kill mobs alone for any decent length of time. Partly because I get much more exp, better loot in the form of the hairs to get blue gear, and partly because I just like pugging in general
‘I feel a sense of accomplishment when I level in Aion. Sure, it’s almost purely based on the amount of time I’ve soaked into the game, but I still feel better about leveling than I have in the past couple MMO’s I’ve played. I never got this feeling in World of Warcraft, or in Warhammer Online.’
I cant agree more with the above, good article. The pace of levelling is one of the things I’ve really enjoyed with Aion along with ‘forced grouping’ dont get me wrong you bump into the odd idiot but overall Im liking the design and mechanics of zonal quest hubs with the build up being taking down some elites with fellow players.
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